For LAMEFAQs Summer 2003 contest, vote CATS!

[Xellos]

I guess I just didn't like Xenosaga as much as you. I got the story,, just hte game didn't impress me, out of the nice anime style graphics. So to me, Xeno has done nothing for games.

[One Classy Bloke]

YES! That flash is excellent!!

*Un-d00d-ificates*

The Xeno* games haven't added anything to the RPG style of games. They're just the top of their genre.

[mrwiseman]

IRT Xellos, OCB:

They sure added a lot of things. For example:

- Massive, deep stories whose development (cut-scenes, dialogue) uses 50% of the playing time (vs. 10-20% in other RPGs including Final Fantasy).

- Thanks to Xeno games, we know videogames can rival books in terms of depth of stories and amount of text.

- A very mature and natural perspective under which you can see some characters in their private lives, bathing, nude, or making love, just as in movies; not meant for pervs, just showing reality. No other games dare to do this (why??).

- Ultra wide timeline stories (the Xeno story starts with events in AD 2001 (TC 1), which affect the story 4500 years in the future. From this point, the series have different spots spanning over 10000 years.

- Strong, direct religion bashing like no other game did before.


It would seem that you don't want to see/recognize these very important merits. Or maybe it's that, under your point of view, the only innovative RPG was Rogue.

[Xellos]

But the thign is, what other RPGs have taken those,a nd done them? None. None have story being spent on as much as gameplay. None have any of those points, they are all the same. Sure, Xeno is great, and innovative, but it affected no other RPGs.

[mrwiseman]

So, what you're telling me is that it would be great if all games ripped each other off. I think it's a good thing that Xeno RPGs weren't imitated by others. We already have enough clich?s (some of them fun nonetheless), and we don't need any more. Or would you want to have 'Ethos' bashing, and Alpha-one restarting in Zelda:WW?

Even after 5 years, Xenogears keeps being an unique RPG in its style, which is an even better contribution to the genre than if it ended with diversity.

[Xellos]

ALl I was trying to say is Xeno didn't make any changes on other RPGs.

Look at FF7. (altough a negative change) Because of FF7's emphasis on graphics and story, rather than gameplay and story, most RPGs now follow that trend. After Super Metroid, more games had mor exploration and free roaming in them, and less linear gameplay. After Metroid, it was realized that females can be main characters, instead of supporting.

After Xeno, RPgs... have remained the same.

I'm not saying that all games should copy these innovative infulencial games, I mean that other games should be influenced by them. If Xeno influenced other games, then I'd expect thhat we'd have 20 minute cutscenes in more games. Not that all RPGs would be the same plot.

I've said all I can say on this, and I'd rather not start another argument up here, especially since we've already had some pretty bad ones lately.

[mrwiseman]

IRT Xellos:

After Xeno, RPgs... have remained the same.

...and therefore KOS-MOS is a worse character than Samus? [img]smile.gif[/img]


----

and I'd rather not start another argument up here, especially since we've already had some pretty bad ones lately.

Huh? I don't know about you, but I find this discussion interesting and I'm enjoying it. It's not like we're now avid enemies because of this; I'm not 0.1% mad at you for this. Let me know if you think otherwise (i.e. you think of this as a quarrel rather than a friendly discussion about something interesting) and I'll shut up immediately.

[Xellos]

Wheee! good, didn't wanna offend you or anything since ya like Xeno so much.

...and therefore KOS-MOS is a worse character than Samus? [img]smile.gif[/img]

Considering KM doesn't have a character... other than: I'm a boring robot who might get a personality in Ep2! While Samus at least has a personality,f rom Fusion we see that she's independent, puts others before herself, strong willed, not too mention a total babe... who actualy has nips and a pussy, unlike KM [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[mrwiseman]

KOS-MOS is a weapon, she's not meant to be a Songstress of Granas that cares for old grannies and all, but a robot who'll kick the Gnosis' asses for you in a sec. However, he does have a human side, especially when her eyes turn cyan... And she's full of hidden functionality even Shion doesn't know about (it looks like Kevin had his secrets, or maybe...). All of this makes her a rather interesting character who has a purpose in the game and fulfills it well.

And you don't really know if KOS-MOS has some extra HIDs (Human Interaction Devices) behind her clothing [img]smile.gif[/img] . Keep in mind that KOS-MOS was given human form, talking abilities and emotion simulation to better facilitate interaction with humans, and aren't those huh... interaction devices? [img]wink.gif[/img]

[One Classy Bloke]

Just gonna say that i'm not getting into the Kos-mos v Samus debate, as i know little about either. So i'm just gonna say both characters are hot.

IRT Wiseman:
Massive, deep stories whose development (cut-scenes, dialogue) uses 50% of the playing time (vs. 10-20% in other RPGs including Final Fantasy).

Some people may consider 50% of cutscenes a bad thing. And other games have deep plots.

Thanks to Xeno games, we know videogames can rival books in terms of depth of stories and amount of text.

We... kinda knew that before. No one been bothered to make such a long game before. Too expensive and takes up too much time.

A very mature and natural perspective under which you can see some characters in their private lives, bathing, nude, or making love, just as in movies; not meant for pervs, just showing reality. No other games dare to do this (why??).

I don't know about you, but i don't care about seeing people naked when i'm playing games. Besides, if i wanted reality, i'll go outside. If i wanted your reality, i'd spy on a nudist camp.

Ultra wide timeline stories (the Xeno story starts with events in AD 2001 (TC 1), which affect the story 4500 years in the future. From this point, the series have different spots spanning over 10000 years.

The Chrono series goes over millions of years.

Strong, direct religion bashing like no other game did before.

Can't say too much on that, ain't seen that bit yet.

The examples you've listed here aren't innovations. These are parts that make this game so damn great and better than other RPGs. But it doesn't include anything that other RPGs want to build on. Mario 64, Final Fantasy VII and Doom all gave us massive innovations to their genres, which set the new levels for other games to try and match.